Friday, January 8, 2010

I'm No Racist, I'm a Nationalist!


I apologize for the hiatus. I've just been super busy as of late and admittedly lazy. I've noticed a bit of new comments and I'm sorry I haven't gotten to you guys yet. The clear winning topic of from the poll was the difference between racism and nationalism so that's the one I'll start with.


I think tons of folks' LOVE to throw the whole racist crap askew(yes black people I'm talking about you-although we aren't the only ones to do it)-but instead of just whimsically throwing this very serious ideology as well as accusation around, lets separate racism from prejudice as well as nationalism.


I'm going to be honest with you all because I dislike sugarcoating.


WE ARE ALL A LITTLE PREJUDICE.


I think in a post before I said that everyone was a little racist but I take that back. I don't believe that the black race, or any race, is better or superior to the others.


But I am a very prejudice person. I openly admit I judge some individuals based on not necessarily their race but how they dress, talk, what they listen to, and yes-race sometimes is a factor in this.I'm sorry but if I'm at a red light, its 2am, I'm alone in my car and a big dangerous looking guy starts walking up to my car-I'm going to lock my door. I would do so if he was any race. My point is that I shouldn't feel any guilt for it if he was black. Prejudice can keep you alive but being politically correct can leave you dead. Prejudice is, at least to me, normal. It's instinct. Call bully on me all you wish.

But sometimes I wonder to myself-how can I be asking society not to judge a person like me when I myself am contributing to the very cause I'm fighting against? That's another post though.


Racism, as we all should know, is the belief that your own race (or maybe perhaps a race other than your own-in that case you have some serious issues) is superior to another or all others.


Nationalism- how I interpret it-is a fierce sense of pride in ones own homeland or country. Basically Patriotism. In the non political sense, Ethnic Nationalism would be the collective pride of an ethnic race. Let me stress PRIDE. Not a superiority complex.

For example, I'm proud to be black. I love African, specifically West African, culture and heritage. I am proud to be a part of it. But I don't think I'm better than anyone because of this.


The problem with these three terms is that the line continually seems to be blurred when the line, at least from my point of view, is pretty clear cut.

I think historically, people have always seemed to put their own interpretation on a belief to fit their own intent. Nowadays, if someone hears Nationalism they have a negative and nearly hostile reaction to to the word. We've become so conditioned to associated pride with racism that we can't even differentiate between the two.

Then if you put ideals of Nationalism and cultural pride into a extreme state of mind-the line can definitely be blurred into something very ugly. I believe these bad seeds are the ones that create this sense of sensationalism as well as danger in the term.

In terms of metal, I'm not very bothered by a band with nationalistic lyrics. Although I've had black and white people tell me that I should be-as if the thought of me listening to music that they are not listening to would offend them. As I've mentioned before I'm a rather large fan of Folk/Viking metal. I can easily rock out to Ensiferum, Finntroll, Tyr, Windir, etc and sleep soundly at night.


But what pisses me off is National Socialist Black Metal uses the term Nationalism as a sort of nicer/politically friendly way of defining themselves as Racist. But, as I said before, a clear line should be forged between the two. Of course, there is more to NSBM as a genre and their ideologies that include Paganism, Odinism, Nazism, etc. I'd like just make sure everyone knows that NSBM is practically a minority in Black Metal despite popular belief. Black Metal, or Satanism, touches on individualism and thinking for yourself rather than the collectivist mentality that NSBM shares that includes their beliefs of race.


What I'm trying to say is that NO ONE should feel ashamed to be a part of an amazing culture as well as heritage. Nor should anyone feel the need to not to keep the heritage homogeneous. I know tons of folks' shout 'mixing races is beautiful' yadda yadda. And it is. But I can understand why a lot of people would like to marry within their own race and keep that line strong. Not out of racism but out of pride and love of your own people to keep the differences that make us all interesting the same for years to come.


A comment was left by Nonworshipper T-zine (sorry to call you out but the comment was too good-welcome to the blog btw) that seemed to sum all this up fairly well:

"I've discussed the difference between racism and nationalism to many people, even speaking outside of metal terms. Oftentimes, the two are used interchangeably and it's because many enter a nationalistic viewpoint with racism on the mind. It's like how a lot of Viking metal fans become Odinists, some getting entrenched in that subtle/not-so-subtle racial superiority brainwashing. Nationalism is being proud of your country and heritage, racism is thinking your race and likely your country and heritage along with it, are the elite. This automatically oppresses others due to them instantly becoming sub-par (or sub-human) in your eyes, since you'd view yourself as superior, the cream of the crop. Yet, when nationalists get too out of control with their politics, nationalism can easily turn into racism."


Oh, humanity...

37 comments:

Anonymous said...

Luke sez:
I'll tell you how I feel about Nationalism, whenever I read about the declining birth rate in Europe, and the next line is about how millions of Muslims are migrating to Europe and building Mosques and having their own sharia courts and stuff, I just get really really PISSED OFF, I mean I don't think we're superior or anything, but in 50 years there won't be any European culture left to proud of.

Something completely unrelated though, I've been waiting for you to post a new topic so I get your opinion on this tune I made with FL Studio, it's kind of Meshuggah-ish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9JEz6Rt-fg
Feel free to check out my other stuff too.

Nuclear Mamba said...

Luke, I know I'm not tbgihm, but I wanted to respond to your comment anyway.

I felt that what you've demonstrated is not nationalism, but an irrational fear. Europe's not going anywhere, and a few muslim families aren't going to take over the whole continent.

It's kind of like what we face here in the states. Everyone wants to assume that the Mexicans are here to steal our jobs, culture, and land, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The white population here is still 70%, so I genuinely doubt that it's going to change anytime soon.

Sometimes, people just want to move to a different country for a better life, and they should have every right to- as long as they're being respectful. I do understand how it could be a bit unnerving because change IS scary sometimes, but culture and pride in your country is something that you keep for life. If it was really strong enough, it wouldn't be hindered by some new people moving into your continent.

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

@Luke: Wow! I'm flabbergasted that you would want my opinion concerning your music! I'm actually quite impressed. My intial thought was that it reminded me of Tool, Tesseract (you might like them, listen to the song 'Lament'), and Messhugah as you said earlier. I think it sounds very progessive as well as technical. The infusion of the sort of tribal sound mid song was a nice treat. My favorite part in it was 3:24 to the end as well as the intensity of 2:16-2:30.
It's a very organic yet familiar sound which makes it intriguing. (I'm not just saying that because if I didn't like it I would be honest with you)
I'm not yet responding to your first comment because I would like to see what you reply to Nuclear Mamba.

Anonymous said...

Luke sez:

Alright I'll reply to Nuclear Mamba, I'm not European, I'm Australian, but ethnically I guess you'd say I'm half English half Dutch, my mother has strong ties to Holland.

Anyway, there are lots of immigrants here to, lots of Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians and the sort, plenty of Muslims too, but no where near the numbers of Muslims they have in Europe.

This is an immigrant country, Australia I mean, so I don't care about the mix of people, in general I do want people to make an effort to accept our way of life, which means I get pissed off whenever I see a woman wearing one of those ridiculous ninja costumes, but in general I accept cultures that accept our culture, for example I live in a house with two Vietnamese people, and often I joke with my landlord, "we need to kick out all the foreigners and keep Australia just for us Aussies" indicating that I feel he is one of us, and in general Asians WANT to assimilate, so I have no problem with them.

But I don't consider my anti Islamic stance to be the least bit irrational, for this reason, the western view is that all cultures are equally good, and as such, Europe accepts Muslims unconditionally and supports their ravenous appetite for breeding with an overly helpful welfare state, in total absolute contrast, the Islamic view is that no culture is worth a damn but their own, and will stop at nothing to conquer the entire world, you see, there's a disconnect there, Europe is willfully destroying itself in order to give Islam what it wants, basically sacrificing themselves upon the altar of multiculturalism.

The birth rate in Europe is 1.3 children per couple, so I stand by what I said, Europe will be destroyed in the next 50 years.

Ps. and by the way I used to think like you, but I've gotten less tolerant as I've gotten older.

Pps. thankyou for the kind words TBGIHM, I got the idea for the tribal drum sounds from listening to Gojira, and I'm pretty stoked about the whole song in general, but the only musical experience I have is playing piano in highschool and using FL studio for the last 6months to a year, and only in my spare time of course.

Nuclear Mamba said...

"Ridiculous ninja costumes"? I sure hope you're not talking about the hijab. I may be in the minority here, I feel that people should be able to express their religion freely as long as they're not forcing it on other people. Wearing the hijab does not necessarily mean that said person dressed in it doesn't want to assimilate.

Also, I noticed that you said that in this "western" view, all cultures are seen as equal. This is yet another point I disagree with. In most western countries, discrimination is still rampant, no matter how many times people try to deny it. There's a lot of racism in this world, and the western part of it is of no exception. Anyway, back to Islam (or your view on it, rather).

I still think that your beliefs about this are a bit skewed. While I will admit that you'll have your extremists, I'm willing to bet that most muslims are just like everyone else. They don't mean any harm, and just want to live a quality life. You can't really pin the actions of few on the whole group.

Moving on, I decided to look up this apparent and staggering rise of muslims in europe myself and found that their population in Norway is 1.8%, 3% in Sweden, 2% in Ireland, 3% in Italy, and .2% in Finland.

I don't know...if they plan on taking over any time soon, then they'd sure have to know what they were doing.

Also, to tbgihm, I'm sorry if it looks like I'm trying to take over your comment section...I don't mean to impose on anything.

Anonymous said...

Luke sez:

A hijab is just a scarf they wear over their heads, a ninja is a person that conceals their entire body apart from a tiny slit for their eyes to see through, I'm sure you can figure out which Islamic garment (that no sane person would choose to wear unless they were forced to) I was referring to.

I personally know some Muslims, one from Iran and some from Malaysia, but, they aren't really Muslims, because they pick and choose the parts of the Koran they want to follow, actually I used to live with that Iranian, I liked getting into religious philosophical discussions with him, oh this funny exchange between he an I happened last year, I came in the kitchen I saw him cutting up slices of bacon...
me "what are you doing"
Mahmoud "I'm making dinner"
me "yeah but, that's bacon"
Mahmoud "well this is Australia not Iran so..."
me "yeah but now you're going to hell, sorry, I don't make the rules, that's what the Koran says so you're going to hell now"

So clearly you see he wasn't a real Muslim, he was born Muslim but he drank, ate bacon and didn't pray, the people that actually take the Koran seriously are f--kin bonkers.

and yeah I apologize to TBGIHM, I took this discussion in totally the wrong direction I think, we were suppose to be talking about nationalism.

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

Don't mind me you guys, debate on. As long as no one is getting seriously angry and keeping the convo mature. Both of you make really good points on the subject and its really intesting to see opposing sides of view. So I'll just play devil's advocate for now.

BAAL said...

Mamba : “Moving on, I decided to look up this apparent and staggering rise of muslims in europe myself and found that their population in Norway is 1.8%, 3% in Sweden, 2% in Ireland, 3% in Italy, and .2% in Finland.”

I have already said that I speak English very bad, but you force me to respond. I cannot let you say things like that.

The question isn’t to know if the wearing of the hijab is ridiculous or not. The question is to know if it’s justifiable to wear the hijab in Sweden or in a country where the hijab was never worn. The question is to know if it’s correct to continue to live as in its country of origin while we are in a foreign country. In fact, the rules of courtesy and propriety would want that we respect the rules of life of the country where we decide to live. Do you understand ?

Myself, if tomorrow I go living in a foreign country, I shall conform to this country by respecting its lifestyle and the customs of its ancestors. I shall not live any more as " French ". Otherwise, it’s what? Immigration or colonization ? The truth, it’s because in numerous European countries, the immigration is more similar to the colonization than to the immigration. Our lifestyles are not respected. Worse, they are replaced.
Also, the situation of the European in certain European countries are comparable to the situation of Indians in the USA. Colonization or replacement of population.

Luke aren’t wrong... The foreign birthrate of certain populations in certain European countries and the migratory movements from Africa are so important, that I shall not be amazed if Europe becomes Moslem in one century hardly.
I repeat. I am maybe going to surprise but the situation of the European today is comparable to the situation of Indians in the USA even if the propaganda makes everything to hide this truth.

« I felt that what you've demonstrated is not nationalism, but an irrational fear. Europe's not going anywhere, and a few muslim families aren't going to take over the whole continent.”

It’s not an irrational fear. Certain cities in France for example are already mainly African and Moslem. I doubt that the French and European culture survives it for my part. Other thing, there isn’t only 1.8 % of foreigners in Norway even if the propaganda claims the opposite. Really, Norway with a foreign population before century would not surprise me and is not absolutely a fantasy. It will be translated by the annihalation of a whole people and a whole culture. It does not matter, the people sleep and when he will wake up, it will be regrettably too late.

It is funny to notice that, what is occurred for the Indians of the USA because of Europeans, risk seriously to occur to the descendants of Europeans … Human rights and the Christian religion of commiseration killed Europe. This was translated by : to authorize to be invaded without reacting.
But all that I say here has only not enough importance really. It is not your problem.

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

@Baal-Thats funny you mention the whole Europeans getting done to them what they did to the Indians...and some Africans...and Asians. (Not saying its right but what goes around comes around, no?)
I would say the situation is closer to that of illegal Mexican immigrants than Indians, per se.
I would say more but I'm in a hurry so I will comment more later..

Anonymous said...

I believe Baal is talking about the Burka or Niqab, not Hijab, hijab is just a thing that covers the hair, European women used to wear head scarves too so I'm pretty sure Baal is mistaken on the terminology.

The whole concept of the Burka/Niqab just pisses me right off, because a) a man that conceals his face is a criminal, so they're behaving like criminals around us, and b) no sane person would wear it if they didn't have to, essentially an owner is telling his slave "you're not allowed to show your face in public" it's just totally wrong and should be outright banned, but then the slave masters would prevent their property from leaving the house, so the only solution is to deport the lot of them, it's offensive to me just to see those ghost like apparitions walking the streets.

Anonymous said...

Luke sez:

That was me by the way, forgot to put my name on there...

TBGIHM, I can see your point about poetic justice or poetic irony or whatever, but parts of Europe have been conquered by Muslims before, so what is there to apologize for? AND of all the ignorant savages to be conquered by, I'd rather it be anyone but them, personally I'd prefer it if the Chinese took over.

(unrelated to what I just said)
I'm not European but I do have a spiritual connection to Europe, I'll be going to Holland in a couple of years to celebrate my mother's 60 birthday, and I'll get to meet basically my entire extended family, so I do have a stake in what happens to the land of my ancestors...

BAAL said...

1) All the European countries are affected by this massive immigration, even those who have never practised the colonization during past (as Sweden and Norway for example). The alibi of the colonization is thus a false pretext to justify the massive immigration in Europe. This immigration isn’t inevitably linked to history. It just serves to enrich the interests of a small elite of individual. It’s especially economic and capitalist and fights against the interests of the European peoples.
Furthermore, the majority of the population of the European country who colonize didn’t take advantage of the colonization nor the slavery. During the ancient time, 80 % of the French population was peasant and was more worried to survive that to colonize the other countries. Only a tiny part of dealers, noble persons, notables, bankers were able to benefit from this colonization. He is thus stupid and inequitable to blame the whole people, the acts of a handle of his inhabitants. It's as if i mixed the African peoples to their dictator. It’s ridiculous.
Besides, europeans of the South also served as slaves for the Sultans. Look at the Slavic word in the dictionary and at the word Janissary (European which were enlisted by strength in the armies of the Sultans). Algiers, for example, was a port where millions of European slaves were deported after being kidnapped on their native ground. Read again the history. Corsica, Sardinia and the South of Italy still carry stigmas of this period.

2) The massive immigration which knows at present Europe doesn’t assimilate. Worse, it replaces the autochtonous population and doesn’t respect the customs and the lifestyles of those who preceded them. It’s then advisable to speak about colonization and not about immigration. If tomorrow, I am invited in the USA, I shall respect your customs and your lifestyles. Sad is to notice that in Europe, it’s not the case. For example, the Turkish which decide to live in Germany don’t live as Germans but continue to live as Turkish, even though they aren’t any more in Turkey.

3) The birthrate of the autochtonous population stagnates while that of the new immigrants don’t stop increasing and progressing.

4) Three elements previously combined end no more and no less in a replacement of population or in a genocide. Even if it’s not bloody, the result is the same.

Anonymous said...

Luke sez:

I don't think the Turks are so bad Baal, we call that group of people "wogs" referring to basically any greasy haired white person with darker skin, (like Greeks and Italians and Spaniards), to try and populate Australia quickly we pretty much took anyone that was even remotely European starting in the 40's and 50's, but then almost everyone here is a migrant going back 3 or 4 generations, so we aren't all that sensitive to changes in the cultural make up of our country.
I know that technically Turks are Muslims but Turkey is a secular state and most of them aren't actively religious.

Anonymous said...

Luke sez:

Let me point out though, that while we don't react badly to the addition of people who are peaceful, we are very quick to judge, basically you get one chance to play nice, and if you f--- it up you'll never hear the end of it, one such group is the Lebanese, about 10 years ago there was a series of gang rapes in Sydney by Lebanese Muslims (they also have a higher tendency towards criminality) and so the Lebanese are pretty much the least liked people here, they make themselves stand out as a bad ethnicity, it doesn't help that Muslim sheiks blamed the rape victims for showing too much skin, or claiming that it was consensual and that the infidels were lying to make Muslims look bad, Muslims and especially the Lebanese are not trusted here among the other ethnicities, but the Turks are still cool with us, I've never met a Turk I disliked.

BAAL said...

I don’t say that Turkish are nasty. I say that they don’t assimilate in Europe as most of the current immigrants. You understood nothing in what I said.

BAAL said...

The problem isn’t to be kind or not.

http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/2007/05/turkish-marriages-in-germany.html

And turkish in germany is an exemple. The problem is present in all the European countries with other communities which don’t assimilate and which replace the autochtonous population

Anonymous said...

Luke sez:

Baal, I read that article, and yes it's something to be concerned about, but I couldn't help noticing this little addition

"45 “honor killings” were carried out by Turkish or Kurdish families in Germany against women deemed to have “strayed,” generally by dating Europeans or adopting Western fashions."

I'm willing to bet you $100 that most if not all of those 45 women were Kurds, after all stoning women to death is Kurdistan's favorite past time, but I've never heard of that happening in Turkey.

Anonymous said...

actually I looked it up and it does happen in Turkey quite a bit, but they have the same problem over there of rural Turks moving to the big cities which are more liberal, and bringing their brutality towards women with them.

Anonymous said...

luke sez:

This is a sad article.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/wcva/fjordman.htm

bring on the nationalism I say.

BAAL said...

Luke, the problem is that there aren’t assimilations of the immigrant populations and that the autochtonous populations are replaced.

Erdogan : “Assimilation is a crime against humanity”

http://sheikyermami.com/2008/02/11/erdogan-in-germany-assimilation-is-a-crime-against-humanity/

Turkish in germany is an exemple. I have nothing against turkish. I don’t like the situation.
An immigrant who doesn’t assimilate in a foreign country is a colonizer...

Fluffy:) said...

OK so the comments are intersting:
1) Whatever that thing muslim women wear should be banned - it calls for attention and who would actually choose to wear that?
2) Muslims should not be allowed to live in Europe - Europe is what it is and there won't be any Europeans left sooner or later
3) The ideas in the Koran itself are rediculous - i am against everything muslim (praying 5 times every day, whipping a woman for wearing pants?, JIHAD)
4)The whole assimilation is a crime is stupid

TBGIHM:
What do you think about religion?

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

@Fluffy-I think everyone has the right to believe in whatever they wish to believe in as long as it makes them happy (Even the not so popular religious beliefs). Just don't try to force your beliefs down my throat or anyone else's. I believe people should come to terms with their spiritualality themselves rather than being coerced or forced by friends, family, etc.
I've come across so many christians and atheists who are hypocrites that I don't even know what to believe in anymore.
What about you?

Fluffy:) said...

Sorry, i didn't mean to come off so aggresively about the whole thing. I just thing that religion should be done away with; people should believe in whatever feels right to them and not some general religion like thing.

Yes, i agree that that i see so many people that are hypocrites and it really bothers me.

The number one thing that bothers me the most (sorry, i just have to say this) is animal sacrificing. I really dislike this and many religions do this :(.

The only problem with not having religions would be that i think that people would commit sucide alot.

Believing in what makes you happy is important, but in some cases these believes include pushing their beliefs on other people or hurting others, which is something i don't accept. For instance, i hate it when Christians come door to door preaching and handing out flyers everywhere. Also i dislike beliefs/religions that support doing wrong.

Sorry for ranting on :(.

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

@Fluffy: Oh, I wasn't saying 'push down the throat'part to you personally. I was just saying that in general people shouldn't try to force religion on anyone.
It should be a very personal decision for the individual.
People WANT something to believe in. Even if its just to believe in nothing. They feel validated and it gives them a sense of security in a world where certainty isn't certain. I get the whole religion thing but throwing all my hope into one being whom I'm not sure exists seems extreme, especially when Science can explain alot of religious anamollys(sp?)
As for animal sacrifice-ancient cultures have been doing it for years. Yes, hurting animals is bad but these cultures weren't doing it to be assholes. They were offering it to their God or Gods for religious ceremony.
And rant on. Don't feel the need to hold back.

Ades said...

Look at this forum. It’s pretty funny and very racist :

http://www.blackmetal.co.uk/forums.html

And read interviews of Varg Vikernes :

http://www.metal-rules.com/zine/content/view/1879/1/

http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/interview04.shtml

Anthony Bloxham (UK): How do you feel about the world now that America has its first black president?

Well, "mulatto" is more like it. He isn't "black". Anyway, I don't feel anything. The president in the USA is and has always been just a puppet for the true masters of the USA. Whether this puppet is white or black, yellow or brown, Democrat or Republican, or whatever, doesn't matter. The true rulers of the USA are the individuals working in the background, oh and by the way; they certainly all have the same ethnicity...

Kurt Ahlstrand (Arboga, Sweden): What do you think about skinhead movement?

I guess it's a part of the immune system of the nation, and a natural reaction to an unhealthy development.

Dmitriy Komyakov (Chelyabinsk, Russia): Are there in your opinion any effective measures that may be taken against islamization of Europe?

Yes. The most effective measure would of course be to get rid of the "elected" governments in Europe, by voting for so-called right wing extremist parties, but if that fails we can always -- and probably will eventually -- use the Richard Lionheart method. :-)


http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/interview05.shtml

What do you think is the main reason of your fame - your music career or your scandalous biography? What do you think about it?

Different groups focus on different aspects, so Christians know me for my hostility towards their Jewish religion, metal fans know me for my music, and so forth. My fame stems from music. My infamy from other things...

You often said that you are not nazist but your music is popular against nazists. How can you explain this? What can you say about musicians who think that political idea is primary an music is only an instrument to spread their ideas?

The ideas on the Burzum albums aren't Nazi, but I think my music is popular with Nazis because they too feel ostracized and alienated in their own countries, and because I too have racist views, so we have much in common. Burzum has Israeli fans too, by the way, but does that make me a Jew? I have female fans too, but I am not them, so it does not make me female... I am not my fans. I am me, and I think it is okay for anyone to like anything. I welcome Nazis to like my music as much as I welcome you to do so.

Most bands who think politics are more important than music make very poor music.

A jocular question. Your "Belus" is coming at the 8th of March. In Belarus and some other countries this day is considered a women holiday. Would you mind your album to be considered a present to all your female fans and your female relatives?

The 8th of March is in Norway a terrible Communist celebration, where the most vile and rabid feminist extremists express their self-loathing and hatred for men in public, with silly speeches and poorly made banners, so I only hope my album will ruin the day for them... ...and I don't hope any female Burzum fans participate in this left-wing menagerie. I was hoping they would be better than that.

My album is a present to all Burzum fans though, and of course to females in particular, regardless of it's release date.

Kelly said...

I don't think we Americans, or Australians or any other immigrant nation, can understand the link between nationalism and racism. In Europe, national borders roughly correspond with ethnic lines. Citizenship in most European countries is obtained only by blood, not by birth within the country. Nation and race are the same thing, or very nearly the same thing, to many Europeans.

OK, on another comment--animal sacrifice? Many religions do this? According to http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html, the five biggest actual religions (I'm excluding atheism) are
1 Christianity
2 Islam
3 Hinduism
4 Chinese traditional religions
5 Buddhism
I don't know about the Chinese traditional religions, and as far as I know Islam doesn't, but the other three certainly don't. Where are you getting this?

Kelly said...

I thought I should add some Wiki-statistics here:

Sweden:
Ethnic groups 81.9% Swedes
5.1% Finns
13.0% other (2009)

Spain:
87.8% Spanish, 12.2% (Romanian, Moroccan, Ecuadorian, British) other (2010)

Germany:
Ethnic groups 91.5% German, 8.5% other

Italy:
Italian: 92.5%, other European (mostly Albanian, Romanian, Ukrainian and others) 4%, North African (mostly Berber) 2%, others 1.5%

Poland:
Polish 96.7%, German 0.4%, Byelorussian 0.1%, Ukrainian 0.1%, other 0.7%, unspecified 2.7%

There are exceptions, though:
It is illegal for the French state to collect data on ethnicity and race, a law with its origins in the 1789 revolution and reaffirmed in the constitution of 1958. None the less, France is an ethnically diverse nation with about six million North Africans and an estimated 2.5 million blacks. It is currently estimated that 40% of the French population descends at least partially from the different waves of immigration the country has received.

viagra said...

I agree we are all into some extend prejudice. And yes there are a lot of differences between being racist and nationalist, the problem comes when you confuse the terms to your advantage. I've always said that everything taken to the limit is bad (except for Metal cuz let's face it you can never have enough). It's fine to be proud of who you are, but if you confuse pride with power you are in trouble.

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cafeaulait said...

"Yes, hurting animals is bad but these cultures weren't doing it to be assholes. They were offering it to their God or Gods for religious ceremony."

yes hurting african slaves was bad but traders were doing it because the church endorsed slavery of the black person by the white person as the natural order. Replace black with women, child, gay, trans, disabled or non-human animal.

ANY ABUSE CAN BE JUSTIFIED BY CALLING IT TRADITION/CUSTOM/RELIGION OR CULTURE.

I don't buy this attitutde where you can do whatever you want even it you are hurting another living being and saying u r doing it for god or because we have been doing it for hundreds of years.

Nationalism is pride in itself, but the moment you ask whether you can join their group if you are non-white the answer is usually no, it's a blood thing. You just have to look at the racism slant and anti-islamic tone of these comments. You are fooling yourself if you think that nationalism is innocent.

Someone even said lets keep australia for the aussies! i'm assuming this person is a black aboriginal.....

Personally i couldn't give a fcku if the european or any other culture dies out. my identity is not a label i have to adhere to. What fear is there with mixing cultures, the chances are you will be dead before this happens and those who are alive will not even be bothered if they did not resemble their ancestors. cultures don't die, they change and keep the same label. Many ancient cultures have changed in the UK but I'm not complaining that I am no longer Pagan.

Wanting to carry on your bloodline, I thought it was about who makes you happy?

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

@cafeaulait: First, welcome to the blog and thanks for your comment.

However, I don't understand your mentality. Nationally in and of itself isn't bad. As I mentioned in the post, when put into minds that would abuse it (slant it towards a racism issue) thats were it gets misconstrued.

I really don't believe there is anything wrong with being proud of your ethnicity or nationality. OR for that matter broadcasting it to anyone else. If you see racism in that then that is what you are TRYING to make out of it.

And I never said that anyone SHOULD carry out their bloodline but that I don't think its a bad thing for an Asian, White, Latino or Black person to PREFER to only reproduce with their own. Obviously there are billions of people in the planet and they will date, fuck, and imp regnant who they want but for those who chose to stick with their own-there is no shame.

Am I wrong for only wanting to date humans then?

cafeaulait said...

Yes I do find it disturbing that somebody would choose not to date me because my complexion is slightly different. In many cities we all share a common culture, so who is really your own?

It wasn't me who implies that nationalism equals racism, just read the comments on this blog, as I said before nationalism excludes those of us who want to integrate because we are apparently different ie not indigenous.

Once you have met people from different backgrounds, you begin to realise that the whole race debate is actually a con, there is no such thing as race, scientifically it does n't exist. therefore clinging onto this concept is ridiculous.

More people would mix if we didn't have this fear of racial and cultural purity.

Full Metal Attorney said...

To say that there's no such thing as race is equivalent to saying there's no such thing as culture. Or kingdoms of living things. Or types of planets. Of course they're all constructs, but they're useful.

Nationality is not equivalent to race. There are several races in countries like the US or India, and generally speaking they're all accepted (to varying degrees) as members of that nationality.

cafeaulait said...

A construct only exists because people support it. An object doesn't change it's definition but race is totally invented and has no definitive scientific basis. It's also subjective changing meaning depending on who you speak to unlike the planet Mars. I wouldn't say race is useful, given the amount of racial hatred in the world.

The comments on here are shocking, calling Muslims "savages", would you say that is racist or nationalistic?

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

@Cafe: I would say thats an ethnocentric viewpoint but not necessarily racist and/or nationalistic.

I'm going to side with Kelly on this one. Sure, biologically speaking, there aren't many reasons for the humanities definition of race but culturally and ethically it exist.
Personally, if these cultural and ethnic differences is what makes the population of the world interesting and unique.
Who are we as a individuals of a cultural identity if we don't claim some sort of ethnic clan or at least a nation?
It is human nature to form clams or groups based on similarities?
Who and what you are is important.

The Black Girl into Heavy Metal said...

BTW, I would like to add that America is a civic nationalistic country.
Cafe, your referring to ethnic nationalism-which I would say could lead to racism but as I said before-in itself isn't a bad thing.

I mean, ethnically I'm Black African but culturally and nationalistically I'm American.

Although, I don't think nationalism in its purest sense is something that Americans can fully claim because of the obvious mixture of cultures/people. I could understand it in Asian, African and European countries however.

cafeaulait said...

Nationalism in its purest form is what I am referring to, as I am based in Europe and it leads to nothing less than exclusion of even people who have been here for generations.

Yes it's a nice fairytale to think that it's a good thing that we are all different, but in reality this positive side has not materialised. History only accounts mainly bloodshed and exploitation and superiority.

So let's quit theorising about a perfect practice of nationalism and look at what actually happens in the real world.

Even though you have a pride about being american, there are many americans which would not want to be associated with you because of your ethnicity. what kind of pride is that?

Culture does not stay static and is constantly evolving so it seems pointless to refuse to change with the times.